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Coal Demand Fill

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Posted by phil 2009-01-09 21:06:01 GMT

When does the Coal Demand track fill up? I thought this happened when someone built a new Coal mine. However, in Unity Games 001, the Coal demand track was missing two cubes, yet my newly built coal mine did not sell cubes to fill up the Demand track. I think this is a bug.

Posted by renegade 2009-01-09 21:20:18 GMT


Coal from newly built coal mines will automatically fill the Coal Demand track IF the new coal mine is linked to a constructed port. In your game it appears you built the link to the port after you built the coal mine. Had you built the link first, the coal would have flowed to the demand track as you wanted. I don't see a Coal Demand Fill bug in your game, but there is in one of my games.


I did encounter a bug in the game Coal Train when the coal of my newly built coal mine did not flow from Manchester 3 to the Demand Track via the port at Preston 1 as expected.

I will leave the game in its current state for your inspection.

Posted by jbluestein 2009-01-09 21:28:18 GMT

I think that the links existed before the coal mine was built. Certainly, in the same game, red built a coal mine that was connected to a port and the track was still not filled up.

So I think there is something going on here -- possibly an incorrect determination of what it means to be connected? Note that neither connection is across yellow's/red's own tracks. Or could it matter whether the port has been flipped or not? (Neither of these matter in the rules, but...)

Posted by Hammerite This user is an administrator. 2009-01-09 21:30:43 GMT

You might be making the mistake of thinking that coal can be sold via Shipyards. It can't, Shipyards serve no game purpose after being built. They don't provide any of the functions of a Port.

Posted by jbluestein 2009-01-09 21:31:53 GMT

No, I'm looking at connected rail paths to existing ports. I see them, and the coal is not being shipped.

Posted by Hammerite This user is an administrator. 2009-01-09 21:32:47 GMT

The industry space built in Liverpool in your game is a Shipyard, not a Port - the first time the central network of cities was connected to a Port was when the link between Manchester and W&R was built, which was after both Yellow and Red had built their Coal Mines.

Posted by jbluestein 2009-01-09 21:32:55 GMT

Just look at the state of the board now: The red coal mine in Bolton and the red Ironworks in Bolton were the last two things built. By all rights, that coal should have been shipped (assuming that yellow's coal didn't ship for whatever reason).

Posted by Hammerite This user is an administrator. 2009-01-09 21:33:13 GMT

See also my post in the game thread re: timing of selling Coal to the Track.

Posted by renegade 2009-01-09 21:34:49 GMT

Any word on the error we have in the game "Coal Train"?

Posted by Hammerite This user is an administrator. 2009-01-09 21:35:21 GMT

I'm just going to have a look at it now renegade.

Posted by jbluestein 2009-01-09 21:35:33 GMT

Let me rephrase here: I see now that Yellow built the rail link from W&R to Manchester after building his coal mine. So I agree that Yellow's coal shouldn't have shipped.

But Red built the coal mine next. All existing rail links were in place. So Red's coal should have shipped there.

Posted by renegade 2009-01-09 21:38:31 GMT

Regarding the OP, here is the log:
"Yellow (phil) uses a Coal Mine card to build a Tech Level 3 Coal Mine on the 1st industry space in Manchester, taking iron from its own Tech 2 Iron Works on the 3rd space in Preston. For its second action, it uses a Shipyard card to build the rail link between Manchester and Warrington & Runcorn, taking coal from its own Tech 3 Coal Mine on the 1st space in Manchester."

This clearly shows the link to the port was built after the coal mine was built. Once a coal mine is built, the coal DOES NOT move off of it in later turns if it gets connected to a port. It has to happen the moment it is built.

Posted by jbluestein 2009-01-09 21:39:47 GMT

renegade, look at the next line. Red's coal mine should have filled the demand. It was built next.

Posted by renegade 2009-01-09 21:43:26 GMT

You are correct about the Red coal mine. I suggest when you encounter an error (or potential error) like this, that you take no further actions and wait for Hammerite to respond to your post in this forum. He has been good to find fixes this way but if the game is too far past that point it is much harder for him to fix.

Posted by jbluestein 2009-01-09 21:45:13 GMT

Actually, nothing has happened in that game since that move except for the building of an ironworks (easily modified). I'm fine if the error doesn't get corrected, but I just want to make sure that the actual bug is understood.

Posted by renegade 2009-01-09 21:50:36 GMT

It does appear we reported the same bug. It might very well have to do with the ports in question are unflipped which as you say shouldn't matter since unflipped and flipped ports both count as constructed ports.

Posted by Hammerite This user is an administrator. 2009-01-09 22:00:20 GMT

Yes, I owe you an apology - the red coal mine should have sold. It was most likely affected by the same bug that affected Renegade's game. Let me see whether I can do anything to help get the game back on track.

Posted by Hammerite This user is an administrator. 2009-01-09 22:02:48 GMT

It isn't anything to do with whether the ports are flipped, it is just an oversight relating to what happens when a tile is removed from the board. Both your games involved tiles being removed from the board (in renegade's case a tile was built over.) When tiles are removed there's code that gets run to work out over again where the ports are and where is connected to a port; this code was faulty (but the fault has been fixed now so the problem should not recur).

Posted by renegade 2009-01-09 22:06:49 GMT

Thanks. You are speedy on these fixes.

Posted by jbluestein 2009-01-09 22:50:51 GMT


Posted by renegade 2009-01-09 22:51:26 GMT

Oops, looks like game "00001.1" has the same problem. I built over an existing coal mine and the new coal did not flow to the demand track.

Posted by renegade 2009-01-10 22:32:22 GMT


Looks like there is still a problem when a tile is built over an existing tile. In 00001.1, I just built over another player's coal mine but the new coal did not flow to the coal demand track as it should.

Thanks for looking into this one! I won't take my next action until you have a chance to look at it.

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