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All GCL 2

Lancashire (Martin Wallace)

Rail Phase - Round 8 of 8. This game has finished. (Messages: 67)

Pretty board
The north-east of Lancashire (Oldham and Rochdale) is present.The south-east of Lancashire (Macclesfield and Stockport) is present.The south-west of Lancashire (Birkenhead, Ellesmere Port and Northwich) is present.There is a "Virtual Connection" between Birkenhead and Liverpool.The Midlands is present.
Coal:           
Iron:     An iron cube costing £2An iron cube costing £2An iron cube costing £3An iron cube costing £3An iron cube costing £4An iron cube costing £4
£1£1£2£2£3£3£4£4
        There's no more demand for cotton.
+3+3+2+2+1+1+0+0NMD
Coal on the board: 0. Iron on the board: 0. Demand Tracks:
Turn Order / Amount Spent:   Purple (GCL-rarevos) is 1st in the turn order.£20Grey (GCL-Jonathan) is 2nd in the turn order.£23Green (GCL-qwerty) is 3rd in the turn order.£31Red (GCL-lambolt) is 4th in the turn order.£0
Canal: £3
Rail: £5 + Coal
2 × Rail: £15 + 2 × Coal
Game status details for Red (GCL-lambolt):
Money:£34
Income Space:26
Income per turn:£8
Remaining Rail Links:12
Victory Points:98
Game status details for Green (GCL-qwerty):
Green (GCL-qwerty) has no Ports left.
Money:£11
Income Space:39
Income per turn:£13
Remaining Rail Links:3
Victory Points:139
Game status details for Purple (GCL-rarevos):
Purple (GCL-rarevos) has no Iron Works left.
Money:£58
Income Space:41
Income per turn:£14
Remaining Rail Links:5
Victory Points:97
Game status details for Grey (GCL-Jonathan):
Grey (GCL-Jonathan) has no Iron Works left.
Money:£21
Income Space:36
Income per turn:£12
Remaining Rail Links:4
Victory Points:124
This player is not in the game (or is no longer in the game).
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Red (GCL-lambolt) is on Income Space 26, and receives £8 income per turn.Green (GCL-qwerty) is on Income Space 39, and receives £13 income per turn.Purple (GCL-rarevos) is on Income Space 41, and receives £14 income per turn.Grey (GCL-Jonathan) is on Income Space 36, and receives £12 income per turn.

Game started with 4 players and currently has 4. Players can vote to kick other players from the game after 2 days, and players are automatically kicked by the system after 3 days.

The Virtual Connection CANNOT be used in reverse in this game.
Coal Mine overbuilding in this game is governed by Rules As Written.

Behaviour at Time Limit B: Kick current player; subsequently abort.
The last move was at 2012-10-11 20:01:45 GMT.

Log of game events

The Talk Rules for this game are: No Restrictions.

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Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-05 18:28:01 GMT


good luck everyone, and enjoy

Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-05 18:28:48 GMT


let us know if you need any hints or assistance rarevos

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-05 19:05:00 GMT


Oh, dear. I'm start player. OK, let's see here...

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-05 19:37:19 GMT


BTW, guys (Jonathan, I'm John; nice to "meet" you) this is a holiday weekend in the US. I'm around, but not consistently, and I've got a lot of house/yard work to get done. GeekMail me if it's been my move for a while and you're getting impatient with me, please.

Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-05 20:14:19 GMT


Generally the opening move is to take the cheap develop, since you need to do a certain number of develops through the game, also this almost guarantees first turn in the next round when you get your 2 actions (though sometimes I like to bust that by taking a first round loan). The good thing about coal though is if you will probably get the first chance to link to an ironworks spot and fill in the first ironworks demand, but that works best when the iron track is all the way down and you fill up the more expensive spots

obvious rider: I'm by no means competent, never mind expert at this game so take any "advice" I give with very large grains of salt.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-05 20:22:40 GMT


Hey, John. I won't even try to give advice—this is only my sixth game, and except for a game that just finished, it's my first game since June. I'm still trying to remember how to play well ... not sure I've ever got to that point in the first place, though.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-05 21:15:39 GMT


Oh, jeez, so there's a "book" on the opening move? Is the game that fragile where this is going to annoy better players?

Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-05 21:25:36 GMT


No absolutely not, im no big fan of scripted anything so i quite liked that you put a coal down! Also, theres no one here likely to get annoyed, at least until martin starts building over our iron works later

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-06 00:32:45 GMT


If so, then in my last game I annoyed the shit out of everyone else. Must have missed every rule in the book—no double-building a city in Canal Age, needing coal connections, no overbuilding with full tracks; everything. And everyone was fine with that, as far as I could tell. No one's going to be getting irritated about anything. Just have fun. We are! :)

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-06 23:20:55 GMT


What he said!

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-08 17:00:57 GMT


I get genuinely nervous when I have positive income in a Wallace game.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-08 17:35:53 GMT


Haha. Take some more loans!

Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-09 12:01:37 GMT


I still cant work out how I can routinely score decent points, and even beat some of the top ranked players here, and then other times, it gets to the last couple of rounds in canal phase, and I wonder what the hell I've been doing, I've bugger all on the board, my industries aren't fully developed AND I have no cash or income. DId I accidentally pass 3 turns?

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-09 12:51:16 GMT


Well you're not going to have much cash if you keep on developing when iron's £5 a pop :)

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-09 12:55:01 GMT


I wonder if part of that is because we're somewhat removed from the physical act of playing the game here. As much as it's nice to have some of the administrative stuff done for me by the site, it's harder for me to learn the rules this way because I blink and a bunch of stuff happens and I can't always work out what caused what; I just know my income went up and my points did something. I know the rulebook is notoriously bad for Brass, but I really am having a hard time following what y'all are doing, and how it's happening. For example, where does it say how much it costs to develop? All I can see is that it changes, but I don't know how.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-09 13:07:54 GMT


John - each develop costs an iron, and the price fluctuates according to the demand track just below the main board. Any iron sitting on ironworks on the board is free and gets used first. Then you start buying from the demand track - from £1 per iron when it's full up to £5 per iron when it's empty. Coal is similar, only to use coal on the board you have to be connected to it (via anyone's links, not just your own).

The 'log of game events' link helps reconstruct what's been going on since you last checked in. But yes, a tricky game to learn without having someone there with you to point things out. Do keep asking questions!

Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-09 17:51:53 GMT


remember I set up another game here JOhn called "GCL Learners", feel free to join, and maybe Eryn too? Then it might be an idea for me to post each move I make and explain how it affects everything on the board etc on a move by move basis

Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-09 18:10:01 GMT


PS yeah I dont know what the hell I was doing with the 10 pound develop. Mental

Posted by GCL-lambolt 2012-10-09 18:37:42 GMT


since I've played almost entirely online for ages, I've actually forgotten when you sell to the external market, you don't flip the mill if the marker lands in NMD, right? (its not that the marker needs to go below it to stop the sale?), so if theres 2 spaces and then NMD, you only sell if you pull 0,-1, or -2, you dont get the sale on -3

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-09 19:25:54 GMT


I'm not sure how many simultaneous online games I can handle at once, Lee. I've got this, a T&E with you, Martin and Laszlo, and then I have one each of 18AL, 18GA, 1830, and 18EU through Rails/Dropbox. That's about as thinly as I can be spread, I think.

The individual rules to Brass are not all that difficult to comprehend, once you see them in action. There are loads of little things to learn and remember, sure, but I've done that in other games. What I *don't* see at the moment is how these little things add up to form a plan. So I have no idea how my individual moves do or do not fit into a coherent effort.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-09 23:00:23 GMT


Lee - correct about the NMD, and it also immediately ends your sell action, even if you had other mills you could have flipped to ports.

John - you're doing very well for a first game!

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-10 18:48:22 GMT


John - one thing to watch out for is that the next round (4 of 8) is the last time you are allowed to take loans. So make sure you have enough money for the rest of the game.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-10 21:12:16 GMT


Ah, yeah, I saw that in the rules. It's nice that the site here also gives the big warning. Definitely something I'd manage to overlook.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-10 21:53:03 GMT


You know, I debated whether or not to take another 30 pound loan, but I'm too embedded in the Age of Steam/New England Railways tradition of Wallace Loans. I decided against it. Oh well. I'll finish 4th anyway, but now we get to see by how much, I guess.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-10 22:04:47 GMT


Hey, I just sat down last week and read the AoS rules. Looking forward to getting it to the table very soon.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-10 22:50:13 GMT


Age of Steam is Capital-T-Tense; hope you like it. I can't remember if it was my first Wallace game or not, but the loans in that game can kill you, instigating a pretty vicious debt spiral. I'm pretty surprised that the loans in Brass are as seemingly innocuous as they are.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-10 23:00:14 GMT


You should be fine John - you have a pretty healthy income.

The loans in Brass are definitely not as punishing as in AoS or some other Wallaces.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-10 23:02:11 GMT


Yes. Brass was the first Wallace game I played (have ever yet played, in fact); I was very surprised that loans were not instant death. I had heard bad things about Wallace loans.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 15:15:39 GMT


Boo, the site seems to be buggy - it won't accept my move.

John, you know the iron/coal overbuilding rules, right? *whistles*

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 15:16:53 GMT


Ah, there it goes.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 15:24:18 GMT


Fine time to ask! :D

I was surprised he didn't do it last turn, instead of building on Rochdale.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 15:34:43 GMT


That's why I was checking :D

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 15:34:59 GMT


I *think* I get the overbuilding rules. Unfortunately, I don't yet know how to calculate who gets hurt the worst by doing so. Newbie stomping, etc.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 15:38:01 GMT


Well you were slightly merciful to Lee in that you took out his L2 ironworks in Blackburn rather than his L3 in Preston :)

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 15:39:54 GMT


Whoops.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 15:40:45 GMT


I'm pleasantly surprised not to have been overbuilt. But, uh, perhaps that means I'm not positioned to do end up as well after the endgame as I think I can eke out. *blush*

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 15:42:19 GMT


Occam's Razor, man. It's more likely I don't know what I'm doing.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 15:44:28 GMT


Yes, except I was applying it to *myself*. You should have seen my last game of this—Lee can attest.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 15:47:24 GMT


Ah, gotcha. So now we get to all stare at our cards and try to figure out the most VPs we can squeeze out of them?

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 15:47:57 GMT


The content of this message has been cleared by the person who posted it.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 15:51:58 GMT


Yup. My eyeballs have been burning since last turn. You'll notice I was reduced to overbuilding just to try to get any points at all last turn. *sob*

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 15:52:12 GMT


Stupid. Double post.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 15:57:43 GMT


Jonathan - you made it difficult for yourself by not taking an extra loan or two while you had the chance. Though I think I went the opposite way - want to borrow some cash? ;)

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 16:07:46 GMT


Yeah, I know. I considered it that last time, but I thought I could pull out a strong showing if I got a turn's jump on Turn 4. All in all, I'm satisfied with how things have gone since then, especially considering the low cash on hand I accepted to try to change the tempo.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 17:09:39 GMT


Folks, I'm sorry, but I have no idea what to do with this hand of cards, and felt the same way in the last round as well. I'm unable to do anything with them. Is it possible that "passing" winds up being your only allowable move?

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 17:10:45 GMT


Can you build (and flip) over one of your existing facilities (say, coal)? Like I did last turn? As long as you can flip, that would net you some additional points.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 17:12:04 GMT


Remember that you can use two cards together, as a single action, as a location card.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 17:13:10 GMT


That should allow you to overbuild, say, a level 2 coal with a level 3, or whatever you have that's higher.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 17:14:01 GMT


Or ... you could build over mine! Well done.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 17:14:15 GMT


I wound up building a rail link to nowhere to force cube scarcity, then overbuilding someone's coal. Apologies in advance if that was a kingmaking move or a random newbie move with no real focus.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 17:16:21 GMT


You could have built a link to Ellesmere and then used my port to sell your cotton. No hard feelings though :)

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 17:19:58 GMT


Aaaaaaand now I see like three things I could have done. Terrific.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 17:21:50 GMT


Yeah, I didn't even see the cotton sale. Sorry! I started ignoring people's available ports about the time I realized I was never going to build another cotton refinery this game.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 17:39:54 GMT


That's ok. I built that thinking I could hit the distant market, but then Lee and Martin killed the demand one turn earlier. I sold it anyway, thinking it would flip, but it didn't. Sort of would have wanted an undo button for that, but oh well.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 17:43:59 GMT


Yeah, that sucks. An undo button would be really nice. Sometimes it's hard seeing things mentally. Watching other people take their turns in the endgame of Brass, I feel like I'm playing Boggle: "Oh, wow, C-U-R-I-O and C-U-R-I-O-U-S were staring me right in the face, at least I wrote down C-U-R ..."

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 19:24:34 GMT


Oh, I'll lose by more than what that VP difference would be, so I don't want to come across like I'm blaming the interface here. I don't mind losing, and I particularly enjoy games that allow you to fail so badly in what amounts to a really open play area. Brass definitely looks like that kind of game.

I definitely learned a lot, and in the second play, there are different things I want to try out. Everything is so very closely intertwined in this game. I can't really think of another game that's quite like it. It has a route-building component, it has a delivery system, it has tech upgrades, it has screwage, it has market manipulation, it has a few viable approaches, it has two distinct stages of planning, it has money management, it has card/hand management. That's a lot of "haves."

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 19:34:24 GMT


This is my sixth play, and it's the first game of Brass I've played that I've gone into feeling I could at last draw on some degree of understanding of how to play well. There's a lot going on, and seeing connections between the different interactions is a big deal.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 19:43:58 GMT


Yep, that's a pretty good assessment John. Glad you enjoyed it! Not sure what you meant about the 'undo' but someone often ends up having to risk that last sale to the distant market.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 19:52:52 GMT


I think he was saying he sold when the market was already at NMD, thinking it would still flip his mill—not realizing it wouldn't.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 20:00:09 GMT


Yeah, Jonathan, that's what I meant. The market was at +0, but not yet at NMD, so I thought I could still sell and flip the tile. I didn't really need anything else -- just the flip.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 20:02:59 GMT


Oh, I see. I thought you tried at NMD. Guess an undo wouldn't help any if you weren't at NMD yet.

Posted by GCL-Jonathan 2012-10-11 20:06:32 GMT


Great game, everyone! Thanks—I really enjoyed getting back into this game. Always up for a game if anyone wants one.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 20:07:28 GMT


John - you would have flipped it if you'd drawn a 0 or -1 demand tile. As I recall, you had about a 40% chance of succeeding. Unfortunately you drew one of the bigger ones.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 20:08:03 GMT


Yeah, I enjoyed that, thanks everyone. And thanks for your patience.

Posted by GCL-rarevos 2012-10-11 20:10:00 GMT


Martin -- AH, ok. So I didn't have a rule wrong, I just got bit by the dreaded Whimsicus.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 20:11:00 GMT


Pleasure playing with you guys - up for another any time.

Posted by GCL-qwerty 2012-10-11 20:13:38 GMT


John - yeah, exactly. The demand tiles guarantee at least 2 sales to the distant market but sometimes there can be 4 or more.

The 'safe' play was to hook up to my port in Ellesmere and flip that - it would have guaranteed you the sale, but also given me points. So depending on the relative scores, the risk can be worth taking.

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